Dave wondered, in his conversation with Coleman, whether IDF is any different from Hamas. I’d love to hear what he believes are any similarities and differences between the two organizations, and why he believes that. Seems like a pretty outlandish claim (as a former IDF soldier)
If Dave Smith can’t be bothered to visit Israel and Palestinians territories, why should we be making the effort to listen to anything the ODD sufferer had to say?
Dave Smith not only can't be bothered to visit, he can barely be expected to investigate the source of his own talking points (i.e. constantly referring to some1 mentioning a memo that he never read).
He is basically an intellectually lazy high school student. He has a position, he finds a few quotes here and there that (at first glance) support his position and his "research" ends there
Though I personally don’t care what he has to say, much like Tucker, he has a lot of influence so I have to care what he says if only to refute him. He gets by on a confident tone and talking over people who challenge him. He also uses the tactic so many propagandists do, which is to make a lot of emotionally charged assertions in a lengthy monologue so that the person discussing or debating with him can’t remember all the points he’s made in order to refute them and if they miraculously did remember them, would never have the time to do it. That way some of the BS always sticks. I wish people would have debate rules that didn’t allow more than one point at a time and limited the amount of “proof” comments so every one could be refuted.
I only say I don't care what he says because I've listened to him enough to know that his views have no relation to rationality or evidence, just like Norman.
I don't need to listen people speak when I'm already familiar with their views and their views are obviously ridiculous.
He's an activist and so he just repeats his propaganda over and over again, as you say. No need to listen to that endlessly.
What does Dave think his life would be like, as a Libertarian, in a majority Muslim society (which one would he choose to live in?) and if he had to live in the Middle East, where does he think he’d thrive?
Simple question. Why is Dave Smith so obsessed with Israel? He seems to act as if US support for the country is a one way street when in fact many lives have been saved by Israeli intelligence alone and Israel acts as a superb counterbalance to malign actors in an important area of the world. His take on the use of force necessary to defeat a death cult like Hamas is naive at best.
It’s almost funny how little Israel actually “receives” aka, spends, in the US. Not only that, Israel literally tests US weaponry on the ground and reports back necessary improvements.
There's a genocide happening in Sudan right now - millions displaced, mass atrocities. Zero US interests, pure humanitarian crisis. Under your non interventionist foreign policy, we do nothing and let it happen. How many people have to die before non-interventionism becomes immoral complicity?
Ashkar Mansur said it was 3 million over 42 years but Brave search says it’s only 160,000 - personally I believe Ashkar Mansur - Brave Search denies that the Syrian government issued a fatwa to say that Druze women could be taken as sex slaves - which is why the men from Lebanon & Iraq jumped in their cars to join in the massacre of Druze men & the footage showed women being taken - so it can be hard to know the truth but Ashkar Mansur was getting information from Syrian Druzes so I tend to believe him - search engines can only collate the information people choose to share with them.
Dave you judge Israel with a particular harshness but what about Islams past & present behaviour as a coloniser Over a period of 42 years 3 Million African Christians have been killed by Muslims or don’t they count? Brave Search says that it’s not 3 million but up to 160,000 -
Christianity didn’t decline because a lack of faith, but because the Islamic invaders massacred and forcibly converted native Christians:
🇹🇷 Turkey – Once the Christian heartland, now ~0.2% Christian after centuries of Islamic conquest.
🇸🇾 Syria – Cradle of Christianity; Once 80% Christian, now less than <2% Christian.
🇮🇶 Iraq – Ancient Church of the East stronghold; now <1% Christian.
🇪🇬 Egypt – Majority Coptic Christian; now ~8% Christian.
🇱🇧 Lebanon – Once majority Christian; now ~30% Christian.
🇯🇴 Jordan – Once almost all Christian; now ~2–3% Christian.
Gaza & West Bank 47,000Christians
Israël - 180,300 Christians
🇸🇩 Sudan – Former Christian kingdoms; now <3% Christian.
🇱🇾 Libya – Early Roman-era Christian land; Many cities majority Christian, now ~0% native Christian.
🇩🇿 Algeria – Home of St. Augustine, once fully Christian; now ~0.1% Christian.
🇹🇳 Tunisia – Once strongly Christian; now ~0.2% Christian.
🇲🇦 Morocco – Early Christian communities; now ~0.1% Christian.
🇾🇪 Yemen – Ancient Himyarite Christianity; now <0.1% Christian.
It's the same stories in those countries in regard to Jews. First they come for the Saturday people, then they come for the Sunday people. I wish we Jews and Christians would end our silly bickering and come together for the sake of the fight against Islamist colonization.
I think that about 30% of Gazans are potentially of Jewish descent but no one talks about it - Mark Halawa who explains how Arafat stirred. Things up for the Gazans who were in Jordan discovered that his grandmother was Jewish & went on a journey to explore his Jewish roots - my cousin in France in her 70s her husband knows she’s Jewish but his family doesn’t & yes she sits with them while they share their antisemitic views - but then many French Jews - before 7/10 never told friends or neighbours or work colleagues that they were Jewish - it’s a complex history of
Numbers like that are very tough to verify but many people may have run away or were injured and were forced to convert so whatever the official numbers of those killed, it’s likely millions have suffered and forced to lose their religion and culture. Certainly the Christian population numbers in Africa and the Middle East, other than Israel, prove that. Either way, horrific.
You regularly seem to downplay Islamist extremism and equate it with other types. Can you see the difference where however extreme other types are, they dont put their own kids in the way of themselves, unlike islamist extremism which does?
Liked Smith around Covid, but he’s so relentless around Israel and the hardcore libertarians simply don’t live in the real world. Coleman did an excellent job knocking him down a peg. I find his smarmy style distasteful. Looking forward to you guys talking to him.
commentators and podcasters who spoke up during Covid and in response to wokeness. I thought they were brave and had integrity and were willing to speak up for the truth. It turns out many were just contrarians who enjoyed being in the spotlight for fighting the “establishment” and when the establishment was right they didn’t care. They were never honest brokers. I suspect Dave Smith is in that category. He could just not be very smart though he seems willfully ignorant about Israel.
By 1970 approx 900,000 Jews had been ethnically cleansed from surrounding Arab & Muslim countries after thousands of years - with NO right of return & were assimilated globally without being granted REFUGEE STATUS nor were the Biafrans who from 1967-70 were starved to the point of death SO please explain why the Gazans & people from the West Bank should inherit a refugee status - when for example Yasser Arafats daughter upon his death was worth $8billion? BTW until Arafat an Egyptian arrived on the scene the Arabs had refused to be called Palestinians
I understand that Hamas has recently been fortifying itself around Gaza. What this in part means is re-militarizing homes, hospitals, and mosques.
According to Geneva Accords, the turning of civilian structures into military ones is a war crimes. So Hamas is committing war crimes against its own people.
Should the UN and EU, etc speak directly about this endangerment to Palestinians? What are Dave's own opinions on it and the relative silence of Western media.
1. Imagine you are approached by netanyahu pre-october 7 and he says "Qatar is offering to supply financial aid to hamas in gaza, give me your advice on whether i have the right to deny the aid, and explain why"
2. You've made a lot of arguments by analogy as to whether Israel has the right to bomb or fire upon buildings that have civilians. What do you believe the actual standard operating procedures militaries follow when there is a military target in a civilian area?
If you found out with out a doubt that Israel wasn't committing a Genocide and killing children, and were just protecting themselves from being Genocided (if its even a word), would you support Isreal?
He knows. I think he took it for granted that the Islamists were telling the truth about genocide, apartheid, forced starvation, ethnic cleansing of Palistinians, etc.
At some point he must have figured out that a loss of ~50,000 civilians in a population of 2.2 million Gazans is only 2-3% of the population.
The real question is why he's such a spineless coward that he still parrots the taquiyya talking points.
As I've watched Dave he seems find of analogies, so I would like to run one by him
A father decides one to take his 3 sons for a walk. He then decides to go to a busy intersection, pulls out a gun and starts firing at the cars. 1 driver decides to ram the shooter. The shooter gets away but the driver ran over the 3 children.
Absolutely. I’m shocked nobody calls him out in that ridiculous analogy he gives about someone blowing up a home with a family inside because someone living there killed his family. It’s making an assumption of revenge as the only motive for the war. When in reality Israel is fighting terrorists who are constantly trying to kill them. Someone should ask him if he thinks Palestinian lives are more valuable than Israeli lives because he wants to let Hamas keep killing Israelis and if Israel can’t ever stop them because they might accidentally harm civilians, then Hamas could kill as many Israelis as they wanted and there would be a real genocide.
The Hashemite kingdom in Jordan was created 25th of May 1946.
Syria was recognised 1 January 1944.
Lebanon recognised 8 September 1944
Iraq recognised 3 October 1932
Saudi Arabia 1 May 1931
Is considered to be coloniser & illegitimate while the other countries aren’t? Could it be because it’s a Jewish state admist a sea of Arab countries whose pride found it offensive that a people who in their eyes should be subservient obtained global acceptance & equality? How insightful is that concept for you?
How about Pakistan, where millions were slaughtered and displaced to create a Islamic republic of Pakistan. Legitimate? Not? Right of return? What about Qatar? Another state ruled by those non-indigenous Arabians and those who come into Qatar have their passports confiscated and thousands died to create their world cup stadiums yet they cannot become citizens.. is this a colonizer state and an ethnostate?
I did think about that & the fact that the football stadium was built not just on slave Labour but many fatalities has been conveniently forgotten but then again when my Indian friend complained about Israel years ago I did suggest that perhaps she should be more concerned about resolving bonded Labour in India & what about the untouchables? Complaining about a Class system when you have a caste system seemed a tad hypocritical especially when you live in the UK then move to the US - but there again she was heavily involved with a Marxism - which again was a tad odd considering that she worked for the world service - people risked their lives to get to the UK & literally listened to the BBC World Service in secret & just for writing in to say thank you meant you could arrested & tortured - the world as we know it has gone haywire 28 August 2018 - Aba n Preach Racism in the Arab world is … https://youtu.be/PJ_O4th2PNc?feature=shared
Well, wasn't it Ashkenazi Jews of Europe who went into the British territory which became Israel? This distinguishes Israel from the rest of the regional nations listed, which were not created as countries for a flood of foreign immigrants.
Ashkenazi Jews are not foreign to Israel. Jews are indigenous to Israel. Arabs are not. Jews who were occupied by foreigners, including Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks and British, are indigenous people and that includes those exiled to Rome and later moved to Germany and Poland.
If you say Palestinian Arabs who left Israel in 1948, have a right to the land despite having no history as a people there, in what universe do indigenous people exiled to Europe and returning to their ancestral lands - get labeled colonizers? It’s absurd and incredibly insulting to indigenous people whose language and culture were attacked.
DNA studies show well over 90% of Ashkenazi Jews have Middle Eastern DNA, from the Levant. Estimates are 40% - 70%. That proves Ashkenazi Jews are from Israel, just like Sephardi and Mizrachi Jews. The Arabs are the foreign occupiers though most of us would share the land and accept yet another Arab Muslim colonial state if it meant we could live in peace.
Dave wondered, in his conversation with Coleman, whether IDF is any different from Hamas. I’d love to hear what he believes are any similarities and differences between the two organizations, and why he believes that. Seems like a pretty outlandish claim (as a former IDF soldier)
If Dave Smith can’t be bothered to visit Israel and Palestinians territories, why should we be making the effort to listen to anything the ODD sufferer had to say?
Good point
Indeed. I don’t see what Dave Smith offers. Hard pass for me.
Dave Smith not only can't be bothered to visit, he can barely be expected to investigate the source of his own talking points (i.e. constantly referring to some1 mentioning a memo that he never read).
He is basically an intellectually lazy high school student. He has a position, he finds a few quotes here and there that (at first glance) support his position and his "research" ends there
That guy is such an idiot, I honestly don't even care what he has to say.
He's the Norman Finkelstein of comedians.
Though I personally don’t care what he has to say, much like Tucker, he has a lot of influence so I have to care what he says if only to refute him. He gets by on a confident tone and talking over people who challenge him. He also uses the tactic so many propagandists do, which is to make a lot of emotionally charged assertions in a lengthy monologue so that the person discussing or debating with him can’t remember all the points he’s made in order to refute them and if they miraculously did remember them, would never have the time to do it. That way some of the BS always sticks. I wish people would have debate rules that didn’t allow more than one point at a time and limited the amount of “proof” comments so every one could be refuted.
I only say I don't care what he says because I've listened to him enough to know that his views have no relation to rationality or evidence, just like Norman.
I don't need to listen people speak when I'm already familiar with their views and their views are obviously ridiculous.
He's an activist and so he just repeats his propaganda over and over again, as you say. No need to listen to that endlessly.
Understood.
What does Dave think his life would be like, as a Libertarian, in a majority Muslim society (which one would he choose to live in?) and if he had to live in the Middle East, where does he think he’d thrive?
Simple question. Why is Dave Smith so obsessed with Israel? He seems to act as if US support for the country is a one way street when in fact many lives have been saved by Israeli intelligence alone and Israel acts as a superb counterbalance to malign actors in an important area of the world. His take on the use of force necessary to defeat a death cult like Hamas is naive at best.
I had thought that Israel receives billions and billions in aid from US. I understand the amount for 2023 was circa 3.3 billion $.
But doesn't this military aid oblige it to buy equipment from US and also provide a good deal of intelligence to US?
It’s almost funny how little Israel actually “receives” aka, spends, in the US. Not only that, Israel literally tests US weaponry on the ground and reports back necessary improvements.
Nine Lives by Aimen Dean covers the importance of intelligence between Israel, the US and UK.
Your debate style consists of a lot of yelling and belittling. Is that a deliberate strategy or are you just frustrated?
There's a genocide happening in Sudan right now - millions displaced, mass atrocities. Zero US interests, pure humanitarian crisis. Under your non interventionist foreign policy, we do nothing and let it happen. How many people have to die before non-interventionism becomes immoral complicity?
I’ve just posted that over 42 years 3 million African Christian’s have been killed - Brave search says it’s 160,000 not 3 million
Ashkar Mansur said it was 3 million over 42 years but Brave search says it’s only 160,000 - personally I believe Ashkar Mansur - Brave Search denies that the Syrian government issued a fatwa to say that Druze women could be taken as sex slaves - which is why the men from Lebanon & Iraq jumped in their cars to join in the massacre of Druze men & the footage showed women being taken - so it can be hard to know the truth but Ashkar Mansur was getting information from Syrian Druzes so I tend to believe him - search engines can only collate the information people choose to share with them.
Dave you judge Israel with a particular harshness but what about Islams past & present behaviour as a coloniser Over a period of 42 years 3 Million African Christians have been killed by Muslims or don’t they count? Brave Search says that it’s not 3 million but up to 160,000 -
Christianity didn’t decline because a lack of faith, but because the Islamic invaders massacred and forcibly converted native Christians:
🇹🇷 Turkey – Once the Christian heartland, now ~0.2% Christian after centuries of Islamic conquest.
🇸🇾 Syria – Cradle of Christianity; Once 80% Christian, now less than <2% Christian.
🇮🇶 Iraq – Ancient Church of the East stronghold; now <1% Christian.
🇪🇬 Egypt – Majority Coptic Christian; now ~8% Christian.
🇱🇧 Lebanon – Once majority Christian; now ~30% Christian.
🇯🇴 Jordan – Once almost all Christian; now ~2–3% Christian.
Gaza & West Bank 47,000Christians
Israël - 180,300 Christians
🇸🇩 Sudan – Former Christian kingdoms; now <3% Christian.
🇱🇾 Libya – Early Roman-era Christian land; Many cities majority Christian, now ~0% native Christian.
🇩🇿 Algeria – Home of St. Augustine, once fully Christian; now ~0.1% Christian.
🇹🇳 Tunisia – Once strongly Christian; now ~0.2% Christian.
🇲🇦 Morocco – Early Christian communities; now ~0.1% Christian.
🇾🇪 Yemen – Ancient Himyarite Christianity; now <0.1% Christian.
I could go on…
It's the same stories in those countries in regard to Jews. First they come for the Saturday people, then they come for the Sunday people. I wish we Jews and Christians would end our silly bickering and come together for the sake of the fight against Islamist colonization.
I agree with you 100%
The most brutal colonisers that ever existed
I think that about 30% of Gazans are potentially of Jewish descent but no one talks about it - Mark Halawa who explains how Arafat stirred. Things up for the Gazans who were in Jordan discovered that his grandmother was Jewish & went on a journey to explore his Jewish roots - my cousin in France in her 70s her husband knows she’s Jewish but his family doesn’t & yes she sits with them while they share their antisemitic views - but then many French Jews - before 7/10 never told friends or neighbours or work colleagues that they were Jewish - it’s a complex history of
Numbers like that are very tough to verify but many people may have run away or were injured and were forced to convert so whatever the official numbers of those killed, it’s likely millions have suffered and forced to lose their religion and culture. Certainly the Christian population numbers in Africa and the Middle East, other than Israel, prove that. Either way, horrific.
You regularly seem to downplay Islamist extremism and equate it with other types. Can you see the difference where however extreme other types are, they dont put their own kids in the way of themselves, unlike islamist extremism which does?
I remember how shocked I was, the day I first saw a Palestinian mother cheer with joy and hand out candy to celebrate her "martyred" child.
Was she just putting on a happy face? Was she truly joyful to lose her child? And did other Palistinian parents feel the same way?
After dozens of other examples, I can confidently say:
No
Yes
and
Yes
Liked Smith around Covid, but he’s so relentless around Israel and the hardcore libertarians simply don’t live in the real world. Coleman did an excellent job knocking him down a peg. I find his smarmy style distasteful. Looking forward to you guys talking to him.
I’ve been so disappointed in some
commentators and podcasters who spoke up during Covid and in response to wokeness. I thought they were brave and had integrity and were willing to speak up for the truth. It turns out many were just contrarians who enjoyed being in the spotlight for fighting the “establishment” and when the establishment was right they didn’t care. They were never honest brokers. I suspect Dave Smith is in that category. He could just not be very smart though he seems willfully ignorant about Israel.
By 1970 approx 900,000 Jews had been ethnically cleansed from surrounding Arab & Muslim countries after thousands of years - with NO right of return & were assimilated globally without being granted REFUGEE STATUS nor were the Biafrans who from 1967-70 were starved to the point of death SO please explain why the Gazans & people from the West Bank should inherit a refugee status - when for example Yasser Arafats daughter upon his death was worth $8billion? BTW until Arafat an Egyptian arrived on the scene the Arabs had refused to be called Palestinians
Question for Dave:
I understand that Hamas has recently been fortifying itself around Gaza. What this in part means is re-militarizing homes, hospitals, and mosques.
According to Geneva Accords, the turning of civilian structures into military ones is a war crimes. So Hamas is committing war crimes against its own people.
Should the UN and EU, etc speak directly about this endangerment to Palestinians? What are Dave's own opinions on it and the relative silence of Western media.
Many questions come to mind but I'll just do 2
1. Imagine you are approached by netanyahu pre-october 7 and he says "Qatar is offering to supply financial aid to hamas in gaza, give me your advice on whether i have the right to deny the aid, and explain why"
2. You've made a lot of arguments by analogy as to whether Israel has the right to bomb or fire upon buildings that have civilians. What do you believe the actual standard operating procedures militaries follow when there is a military target in a civilian area?
If you found out with out a doubt that Israel wasn't committing a Genocide and killing children, and were just protecting themselves from being Genocided (if its even a word), would you support Isreal?
He knows. I think he took it for granted that the Islamists were telling the truth about genocide, apartheid, forced starvation, ethnic cleansing of Palistinians, etc.
At some point he must have figured out that a loss of ~50,000 civilians in a population of 2.2 million Gazans is only 2-3% of the population.
The real question is why he's such a spineless coward that he still parrots the taquiyya talking points.
As I've watched Dave he seems find of analogies, so I would like to run one by him
A father decides one to take his 3 sons for a walk. He then decides to go to a busy intersection, pulls out a gun and starts firing at the cars. 1 driver decides to ram the shooter. The shooter gets away but the driver ran over the 3 children.
Who's responsible for the murder?
Absolutely. I’m shocked nobody calls him out in that ridiculous analogy he gives about someone blowing up a home with a family inside because someone living there killed his family. It’s making an assumption of revenge as the only motive for the war. When in reality Israel is fighting terrorists who are constantly trying to kill them. Someone should ask him if he thinks Palestinian lives are more valuable than Israeli lives because he wants to let Hamas keep killing Israelis and if Israel can’t ever stop them because they might accidentally harm civilians, then Hamas could kill as many Israelis as they wanted and there would be a real genocide.
Pray do tell why :
Israel recognised 14 May 1948
vs
Bahrain 15 August 1971
Kuwait 19 June 1961
Yemen recognised 4 March 1946
The Hashemite kingdom in Jordan was created 25th of May 1946.
Syria was recognised 1 January 1944.
Lebanon recognised 8 September 1944
Iraq recognised 3 October 1932
Saudi Arabia 1 May 1931
Is considered to be coloniser & illegitimate while the other countries aren’t? Could it be because it’s a Jewish state admist a sea of Arab countries whose pride found it offensive that a people who in their eyes should be subservient obtained global acceptance & equality? How insightful is that concept for you?
How about Pakistan, where millions were slaughtered and displaced to create a Islamic republic of Pakistan. Legitimate? Not? Right of return? What about Qatar? Another state ruled by those non-indigenous Arabians and those who come into Qatar have their passports confiscated and thousands died to create their world cup stadiums yet they cannot become citizens.. is this a colonizer state and an ethnostate?
I did think about that & the fact that the football stadium was built not just on slave Labour but many fatalities has been conveniently forgotten but then again when my Indian friend complained about Israel years ago I did suggest that perhaps she should be more concerned about resolving bonded Labour in India & what about the untouchables? Complaining about a Class system when you have a caste system seemed a tad hypocritical especially when you live in the UK then move to the US - but there again she was heavily involved with a Marxism - which again was a tad odd considering that she worked for the world service - people risked their lives to get to the UK & literally listened to the BBC World Service in secret & just for writing in to say thank you meant you could arrested & tortured - the world as we know it has gone haywire 28 August 2018 - Aba n Preach Racism in the Arab world is … https://youtu.be/PJ_O4th2PNc?feature=shared
Well, wasn't it Ashkenazi Jews of Europe who went into the British territory which became Israel? This distinguishes Israel from the rest of the regional nations listed, which were not created as countries for a flood of foreign immigrants.
Ashkenazi Jews are not foreign to Israel. Jews are indigenous to Israel. Arabs are not. Jews who were occupied by foreigners, including Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks and British, are indigenous people and that includes those exiled to Rome and later moved to Germany and Poland.
If you say Palestinian Arabs who left Israel in 1948, have a right to the land despite having no history as a people there, in what universe do indigenous people exiled to Europe and returning to their ancestral lands - get labeled colonizers? It’s absurd and incredibly insulting to indigenous people whose language and culture were attacked.
DNA studies show well over 90% of Ashkenazi Jews have Middle Eastern DNA, from the Levant. Estimates are 40% - 70%. That proves Ashkenazi Jews are from Israel, just like Sephardi and Mizrachi Jews. The Arabs are the foreign occupiers though most of us would share the land and accept yet another Arab Muslim colonial state if it meant we could live in peace.