The late C. S. Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity that “You cannot make men good by law: and without good men you cannot have a good society.” Has Britain's decline been the responsibility of our political leadership and parties, or does responsibility ultimately lie with all of us? If it's the latter, do you have any thoughts on what it might take to begin to turn this great oil tanker around?
I've greatly admired Peter's books but upon finishing them I always end up feeling rather hopeless about Britain's future. Does anything give Peter hope for the future of Britain or, if Britain is doomed to disintegrate, England?
About 12 years ago I attended a debate between Peter and Theodore Dalrymple on capital punishment. I remember Peter saying it would not be reintroduced unless there was a breakdown in society. Do you feel that we are close to that now?
Your father served aboard HMS Jamaica at the Battle of the North Cape, where my grandfather also fought. I find it somewhat moving as a sense of commonality between my native Norway and the UK. Do you think people today still possess the cultural memory needed to understand what such cooperation and duty meant, and if not, can it be taught again?
Christopher's absence is felt strongly in the woke revolution we've been forced to endure for the past decade. Do you think he would be on board with Reform, if he was still with us?
The nature of progressivism by its own definition is an endless march towards the 'perfectibility' of the human condition which goes some way to explaining how we now have irrational nonsense such as all cultures are equal, gays for Palestine, women with dicks and 'net zero'. There is no mechanism in left wing ideology to identify when it has gone too far. On the contrary it seems the ideology indicates it is impossible to go to far. The political establishment and mainstream media says all this stuff is 'normal'.
How is this going to end?. Will there be a new age of enlightenment or is western civilization headed down the toilet?
Normally people start to swing to the right as they get older and start paying taxes and having a secure relationship and children etc. Is the delay or failure to reach these adult milestones with many younger millennials/Gen-Z strengthening or having another impact on the left?
You have spent much of your career warning that Britain’s decline is deeper than bad governments or failed policies. Is populism a genuine revolt against that decline, or merely another symptom of a society that has lost the habits, loyalties, and beliefs needed to govern itself?
Big admirer. I don't always agree with you, but find your adherence to firmly held moral principles a rarity in the modern age.
Q1. Short of a return to the transcendentals in universities, do you see any hope at all for Britain and the West more generally?
Q2. You've openly criticised Thatcher/Reagan. However, I'm not sure about your foundational view on economic liberalisation. Do you see the process as inherently flawed, or do you acknowledge that the period did require sensible reforms, but the supposed correction was driven to extremis for ideological reasons?
It's notable that now that China is offshoring, they are keeping all the medium and high value manufacturing for themselves while simultaneously losing the lower value manufacturing from onshore operations. Perhaps they learned from our mistakes.
Q3. Was the basic flaw in Western thinking the blank slate. Has the West fundamentally underestimated the degree of labour inelasticity within the workforce?
Q4. Do we need a return to the grammar school and special schools for kids with behavioural problems? When I was a kid the threat of special schools was enough to keep most troublemakers inline. If you had the choice of three major educational reforms, what would they be?
Q5. A fun question with a little levity. Have you watched the series The Chosen? I know it does take occasional dramatic license, but it has encouraged many lapsed or inactive Christians to return to reading the Bible. It's also introduced Christianity to a new audience. Do you see this as a good thing?
You often argue that Christianity underpins Western civilisation. Can a non-believer consistently uphold the same moral framework, or is belief itself indispensable?
I think it depends whether they hold an objective moral value over which they unwilling to compromise of paramount importance. Some can and do, but even Christians struggle with this necessity. One such value might be uncompromising truth-seeking. Another might be civil libertarianism and an implicit opposition to government which seeks to use force, coercion or fear to enforce conformity of belief.
Good question though. They key distinction is understanding that although a large majority of people have an instinctual inclination towards goodness, it's a pretty weak urge which needs quite considerable reinforcement. Otherwise people are prone to falling to despondency and nihilism, ideological capture, and subversion by subjectivism with its inherent tilt towards self-justification for moderately immoral acts.
How many people claim on their household insurance when they really shouldn't or don't bother refunding a cashier when two notes stick together? If they knew how much the average supermarket cashier lights up when people are honest to a fault, they might change their actions. It's essentially a burst of human optimism for the cost of no more than £20. In many ways, it's like the old medieval analogy of an imp on one shoulder and a cherub on the other. The imp is always present. Christianity supplies the cherub, but sometimes people are strong enough to resist the imp by themselves.
The question of why someone would want to face the imp by themselves is probably a better question. Most people who have negative views of Christianity possess those views because they've seen or heard bad version of Christianity. The majority of Christians practice a quieter and gentler faith which is far less repressive/oppressive/unkind. Jesus himself warned about those subverting his message for their own ends. This Chesterton quote is one of my favourites: 'The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.'
Sorry for butting in, but I simply couldn't resist such an interesting question.
Wonderful comment. I have recently returned to church (Anglo catholic( after 35years) and my husband is getting confirmed. We are far certainly perfect but we go because we are sinners, not saints! I hadn’t heard the Chesterton quote but will be making a note of it.
Thanks! It's worth remembering that the Sermon on the Mount is only 12 minutes long! The Beatitudes and then there are all the Parables. I'm a sinner myself. One of the great things about Christianity is that it doesn't ask for perfection. Christ didn't choose moral exemplars to be his apostles. He chose tax collectors, fishermen and zealots. The tragedy is that most people who argue against Christianity these days are arguing against strawmen.
Here's a top tip. It's worth watching John Lennox. He's by far my favourite Christian apologist and his talks and debates are quite popular on YouTube.
No it’s fine - I tend to agree with you, and I strongly suspect Peter would too! Some individuals can do it, but en-masse? Not so sure, to say the least.
It’s also worth noting that virtues differ. Some exist in a linear relationship- more is almost always better (the exception on truth being when a woman asks you whether a dress makes her arse looks bigger). Other virtues are downward-opening parabola- they are only beneficial in moderation. Suicidal empathy is a clear example.
Hi Peter , What do you think will be the best "right wing" plan for 2029? hypothetically would it be good for the country if the Conservatives/Reform and Restore "join" forces somehow? (assuming they can manage) if one party drops out due to lack of interest or worse the loss of a leader through assassination, will civil war be the only thing between us and socialism/communism?
Otherwise great to see you back on the show please come more often!
When will you challenge him on the growth of islamic extremism in the UK and force him to admit it isn't “Far-Right” to oppose such a dangerous a ideology that literally patrols the streets of Britain.
I’ve heard Frank Wright (Restore) say he’s a big admirer of Peter. He believes Restore is the only party offering real change. What does Peter think about Restore?
Mr Hitchens, may I ask why your opposition to drug legalisation often appears so visceral and emotionally charged, rather than focused on a dispassionate comparison of harms?
I am a soldier and live under a strict zero-tolerance drugs policy, yet alcohol is subsidised and deeply embedded within mess culture. My grandfather drank himself to death, so I find it impossible to accept the simplistic distinction that alcohol is socially legitimate while cannabis, for example, belongs in an entirely different moral category.
I smoked cannabis as a teenager and am well aware that it can cause real harm. I am not advocating indiscriminate legalisation or pretending that all drugs are equivalent. My concern is that we fixate on whether a substance is legal or illegal, rather than asking which policies actually reduce addiction, illness, crime and social damage.
Professor David Nutt’s comparative analysis of psychoactive-drug harms suggested that the legal classification of substances bears little consistent relationship to their overall harm, particularly once alcohol’s harm to users and wider society is considered.
Why, then, should policy not begin with evidence, proportionality and harm reduction? And do you accept that Britain’s present approach may owe more to cultural habit and an emotional dislike of certain substances than to a coherent assessment of their actual effects?
The late C. S. Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity that “You cannot make men good by law: and without good men you cannot have a good society.” Has Britain's decline been the responsibility of our political leadership and parties, or does responsibility ultimately lie with all of us? If it's the latter, do you have any thoughts on what it might take to begin to turn this great oil tanker around?
I've greatly admired Peter's books but upon finishing them I always end up feeling rather hopeless about Britain's future. Does anything give Peter hope for the future of Britain or, if Britain is doomed to disintegrate, England?
About 12 years ago I attended a debate between Peter and Theodore Dalrymple on capital punishment. I remember Peter saying it would not be reintroduced unless there was a breakdown in society. Do you feel that we are close to that now?
Your father served aboard HMS Jamaica at the Battle of the North Cape, where my grandfather also fought. I find it somewhat moving as a sense of commonality between my native Norway and the UK. Do you think people today still possess the cultural memory needed to understand what such cooperation and duty meant, and if not, can it be taught again?
Christopher's absence is felt strongly in the woke revolution we've been forced to endure for the past decade. Do you think he would be on board with Reform, if he was still with us?
The nature of progressivism by its own definition is an endless march towards the 'perfectibility' of the human condition which goes some way to explaining how we now have irrational nonsense such as all cultures are equal, gays for Palestine, women with dicks and 'net zero'. There is no mechanism in left wing ideology to identify when it has gone too far. On the contrary it seems the ideology indicates it is impossible to go to far. The political establishment and mainstream media says all this stuff is 'normal'.
How is this going to end?. Will there be a new age of enlightenment or is western civilization headed down the toilet?
Normally people start to swing to the right as they get older and start paying taxes and having a secure relationship and children etc. Is the delay or failure to reach these adult milestones with many younger millennials/Gen-Z strengthening or having another impact on the left?
You have spent much of your career warning that Britain’s decline is deeper than bad governments or failed policies. Is populism a genuine revolt against that decline, or merely another symptom of a society that has lost the habits, loyalties, and beliefs needed to govern itself?
Big admirer. I don't always agree with you, but find your adherence to firmly held moral principles a rarity in the modern age.
Q1. Short of a return to the transcendentals in universities, do you see any hope at all for Britain and the West more generally?
Q2. You've openly criticised Thatcher/Reagan. However, I'm not sure about your foundational view on economic liberalisation. Do you see the process as inherently flawed, or do you acknowledge that the period did require sensible reforms, but the supposed correction was driven to extremis for ideological reasons?
It's notable that now that China is offshoring, they are keeping all the medium and high value manufacturing for themselves while simultaneously losing the lower value manufacturing from onshore operations. Perhaps they learned from our mistakes.
Q3. Was the basic flaw in Western thinking the blank slate. Has the West fundamentally underestimated the degree of labour inelasticity within the workforce?
Q4. Do we need a return to the grammar school and special schools for kids with behavioural problems? When I was a kid the threat of special schools was enough to keep most troublemakers inline. If you had the choice of three major educational reforms, what would they be?
Q5. A fun question with a little levity. Have you watched the series The Chosen? I know it does take occasional dramatic license, but it has encouraged many lapsed or inactive Christians to return to reading the Bible. It's also introduced Christianity to a new audience. Do you see this as a good thing?
You often argue that Christianity underpins Western civilisation. Can a non-believer consistently uphold the same moral framework, or is belief itself indispensable?
I think it depends whether they hold an objective moral value over which they unwilling to compromise of paramount importance. Some can and do, but even Christians struggle with this necessity. One such value might be uncompromising truth-seeking. Another might be civil libertarianism and an implicit opposition to government which seeks to use force, coercion or fear to enforce conformity of belief.
Good question though. They key distinction is understanding that although a large majority of people have an instinctual inclination towards goodness, it's a pretty weak urge which needs quite considerable reinforcement. Otherwise people are prone to falling to despondency and nihilism, ideological capture, and subversion by subjectivism with its inherent tilt towards self-justification for moderately immoral acts.
How many people claim on their household insurance when they really shouldn't or don't bother refunding a cashier when two notes stick together? If they knew how much the average supermarket cashier lights up when people are honest to a fault, they might change their actions. It's essentially a burst of human optimism for the cost of no more than £20. In many ways, it's like the old medieval analogy of an imp on one shoulder and a cherub on the other. The imp is always present. Christianity supplies the cherub, but sometimes people are strong enough to resist the imp by themselves.
The question of why someone would want to face the imp by themselves is probably a better question. Most people who have negative views of Christianity possess those views because they've seen or heard bad version of Christianity. The majority of Christians practice a quieter and gentler faith which is far less repressive/oppressive/unkind. Jesus himself warned about those subverting his message for their own ends. This Chesterton quote is one of my favourites: 'The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.'
Sorry for butting in, but I simply couldn't resist such an interesting question.
Wonderful comment. I have recently returned to church (Anglo catholic( after 35years) and my husband is getting confirmed. We are far certainly perfect but we go because we are sinners, not saints! I hadn’t heard the Chesterton quote but will be making a note of it.
Thanks! It's worth remembering that the Sermon on the Mount is only 12 minutes long! The Beatitudes and then there are all the Parables. I'm a sinner myself. One of the great things about Christianity is that it doesn't ask for perfection. Christ didn't choose moral exemplars to be his apostles. He chose tax collectors, fishermen and zealots. The tragedy is that most people who argue against Christianity these days are arguing against strawmen.
Here's a top tip. It's worth watching John Lennox. He's by far my favourite Christian apologist and his talks and debates are quite popular on YouTube.
No it’s fine - I tend to agree with you, and I strongly suspect Peter would too! Some individuals can do it, but en-masse? Not so sure, to say the least.
It’s also worth noting that virtues differ. Some exist in a linear relationship- more is almost always better (the exception on truth being when a woman asks you whether a dress makes her arse looks bigger). Other virtues are downward-opening parabola- they are only beneficial in moderation. Suicidal empathy is a clear example.
Which of your predictions over the last 20 years do you think turned out to be wrong, and why?
How do you distinguish between preserving valuable traditions and resisting change because it feels unfamiliar?
Hi Peter , What do you think will be the best "right wing" plan for 2029? hypothetically would it be good for the country if the Conservatives/Reform and Restore "join" forces somehow? (assuming they can manage) if one party drops out due to lack of interest or worse the loss of a leader through assassination, will civil war be the only thing between us and socialism/communism?
Otherwise great to see you back on the show please come more often!
Owen Jones is helping extremism.
When will you challenge him on the growth of islamic extremism in the UK and force him to admit it isn't “Far-Right” to oppose such a dangerous a ideology that literally patrols the streets of Britain.
I’ve heard Frank Wright (Restore) say he’s a big admirer of Peter. He believes Restore is the only party offering real change. What does Peter think about Restore?
Mr Hitchens, may I ask why your opposition to drug legalisation often appears so visceral and emotionally charged, rather than focused on a dispassionate comparison of harms?
I am a soldier and live under a strict zero-tolerance drugs policy, yet alcohol is subsidised and deeply embedded within mess culture. My grandfather drank himself to death, so I find it impossible to accept the simplistic distinction that alcohol is socially legitimate while cannabis, for example, belongs in an entirely different moral category.
I smoked cannabis as a teenager and am well aware that it can cause real harm. I am not advocating indiscriminate legalisation or pretending that all drugs are equivalent. My concern is that we fixate on whether a substance is legal or illegal, rather than asking which policies actually reduce addiction, illness, crime and social damage.
Professor David Nutt’s comparative analysis of psychoactive-drug harms suggested that the legal classification of substances bears little consistent relationship to their overall harm, particularly once alcohol’s harm to users and wider society is considered.
Why, then, should policy not begin with evidence, proportionality and harm reduction? And do you accept that Britain’s present approach may owe more to cultural habit and an emotional dislike of certain substances than to a coherent assessment of their actual effects?