Benjamin Netanyahu

Prime Minister of Israel.

Benjamin Netanyahu is a politician and diplomat who has served as Prime Minister of Israel since 2022. He also might be the single most divisive figure in world politics today. Since the attacks of October 7th, he has overseen Israel’s war on Hamas - a campaign that has earned him praise and condemnation in comparable measure.

To some, he is the brave face of democracy and Western freedom, caught in an existential war for his nation’s survival. To others, he is a war criminal orchestrating the deliberate genocide of the Palestinian people. In November last year, the International Criminal Court (the ICC) issued a warrant for his arrest, following an investigation that revealed alleged crimes against humanity.

Why did we invite him on?

We’ve been following the Israel-Palestine conflict for nearly two years, speaking to figures of wildly varied backgrounds on both sides. Pundits, soldiers, writers, activists, historians, and intelligence officers; all kinds of names and faces have joined us to share their view on the most controversial war of our time.

Across those many hours of conversation, Netanyahu’s name has come up again and again in contrasting light. When the opportunity to speak with the man himself arose, we knew it was too seismic to pass on. Whatever you think, whichever side you find yourself on, there’s value in hearing what he has to say.

What did we talk about?

“I’m very proud of the people of Israel. I’m proud of the soldiers of Israel. The 12-day war with Iran, I called it the ‘Rising Lion’. In the Bible, it said our soldiers would ‘rise like lions’, and that’s exactly what they did.”

As soon as this interview was confirmed, we knew we had to bring our A-game. We always want our guests to have the opportunity to speak freely, but, perhaps more than ever, putting forward a challenge was a non-negotiable.

But before we got there, we wanted to recognise the magnitude of what was before us.
An unspeakably small number of people have had to bear the responsibility of leading a nation. An even smaller fraction have had to lead in the wake of a terrorist attack. Smaller again, one on the scale of October 7th.

“It was 6:29 AM on Shabbat morning, and I got a call from my military secretary. The first thing I asked was ‘Is this a full-scale invasion?’ … In moments like these, you don’t wallow in the mire. You think very clearly.”

21 months later, one wonders if it’s possible to digest what happened. As much as the ongoing war might command his attention day-to-day, it’s clear that the catalytic invasion remains front of mind. His nation grieves, does he?

“To absorb the savagery is more difficult than grieving. You seldom encounter more bestial behaviour. I don’t think you encounter it among beasts. The raping and killing of women, the beheading of men, the burning of babies, the abduction of innocent people … it’s savagery on a scale we haven’t seen since the Holocaust.”

To Netanyahu, October 7th was more than an attack on the innocent. From that moment, he was unable to make the assumptions states need to find peace: to see himself and his opponents as two rational actors seeking a common good. He sees Israel and Hamas as fundamentally different entities - to ethically compare their missions is to dignify slaughter, and the joy they take in it.

“We’re not the same; they do it with a fiendish glee. We’re fighting the battle of civilisation against savagery, against barbarism. It was true at the beginning of the war, and it’s true today.”

Two years is, on the scale of this centuries-old conflict, no time at all. But his intelligence services have now had 21 months to investigate the worst act of terror Israel has ever seen; one struggles to imagine a more pressing issue. We ask him: What do you know now that you didn’t know on the 8th?